tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post5157687413927979422..comments2023-03-28T15:55:05.088-07:00Comments on Bill's Waste of Air: Oregon Women Lead to have "Pro Choice Happy Hour"Bill's Waste of Airhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17584899641654370310noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post-83321835305002673742010-02-17T14:49:19.699-08:002010-02-17T14:49:19.699-08:00So you have de-facto defined a person as someone w...So you have de-facto defined a person as someone who can "sustain life on its own." A fetus as young as 24 weeks could meet that definition. So I assume you would welcome the "intrusion into" a mother's "life" of a ban on abortion after 24 weeks.<br /><br />Also, how far does the "choice to do with the body as she pleases" extend? There are many, many things she might "choose" to do with her body that are not legal.psychobobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16893106282711736231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post-91267466285028047622010-01-20T10:26:27.747-08:002010-01-20T10:26:27.747-08:00Blunt, I am in favor of capital punishment as well...Blunt, I am in favor of capital punishment as well. Someone who is guilty of a capital offence is no longer innocent - and indeed has violated the rights of another. In order to maintain a civil society, society must protect the innocent and punish the guilty. One who has taken the right to life away from another have themselves lost that right.<br /><br />Also, I am very, very troubled that you think a human is not a person until 18! Certainly a person is not legally an adult until 18, but surely they have the right to life before then!<br /><br />You say you "shouldn't be allowed to tell a woman what choice to make. It's up to her and not me or the government and I don't know why anyone else thinks they have the right to tell someone what to do with their body." Well, that's the problem with legalized abortion. There isn't one body in play, there are two - the woman's and the baby's. So who's "rights" are more important? IMO, it is the innocent, voiceless child's right to life that is the most important. The woman can choose to keep the child or give it up for adoption. But a child cannot choose not to be sucked into a sink and tossed in the garbage.<br /><br />You say you don't want to define when personhood begins. Well, if it isn't at conception, you <i>HAVE</i> to in order to define when an individual's right to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" begin, and when we can no longer arbitrarily decide to end their life. <br />I gave the example of Denmark, where "invalid" infants and old people are "terminated," but there are more extreme examples. In regimes like the National Socialists, Stalinist Russia, or Maoist China, where there was no natural law, anyone could be executed for any reason. Abortion was not only legal, but in many cases forced.psychobobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16893106282711736231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post-20368022755060573982010-01-19T14:31:43.636-08:002010-01-19T14:31:43.636-08:00Blunt Matt,
An unborn child is innocent. A crimi...Blunt Matt,<br /><br />An unborn child is innocent. A criminal is given due process of the law and found guilty of a crime. Capital punishment and abortion can not be compared because society is dealing with two totally different situations. <br /><br />I have no patience for people who don't read other people's arguments but are insistent on restating overused, shallow hyperbole. ex: "pro-lifers are crazy, it's a woman's body, what about the death penalty, pro-lifers don't care about women..." Heard that, it's answered, now please come up with something new-- after you've taken a Logic course.<br /><br />(I don't mean to be rude- but your screen name IS Blunt Matt- so I figured you would appreciate that others can be blunt, too) <br /><br /> Psychobob, if we believe that all people are equal, then a mother and an unborn child should have equal protection under the law. I am surprised that HallView and Blunt Matt are so down on the poor- "burdens on society" and "cannon fodder"?? Aren't liberals supposed to be uber-compassionate?Avidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811419029042631201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post-58256671967063057172010-01-18T13:20:33.275-08:002010-01-18T13:20:33.275-08:00Our system of government is based on Natural Law (...Our system of government is based on Natural Law (see "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.")<br />Of course by "men" the framers meant people in general.<br /><br />If you believe personhood begins at conception, then abortion is murder under Natural Law, because it denies the unborn person of life without due process.<br /><br />If, however, you argue that a fetus is not a person, the burden is on you to argue when personhood does begin. Some on the ultra-left have argue that an infant as old as two is not yet a person. And yes, HallView, the next step IS euthanasia and infanticide. Some European countries where Natural Law is not enshrined in their system of government have enacted euthanasia and infanticide in cases where the person is decided to be "invalid." In other words, redefining personhood, if not defined as beginning at conception, opens our society to killing the old and the infirm.<br /><br />Therefore, the argument that unwanted people should be killed before they exit the womb, simply because they are unwanted, is ludicrous. It doesn't matter if they are unwanted, they are persons and are therefore entitled to "certain unalienable rights."<br /><br />The more difficult argument is whether the mother has more rights than her unborn child.<br /><br />By the way, Hall, last time I checked we were a republic, not an empire. All the territories we "maintain" outside of the states have chosen to remain territories. And please stop with the tired, false line that the poor are the only ones who join the military. It is offensive and ignorant. If you want to be taken seriously, leave that kind of drivel out.psychobobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16893106282711736231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post-47716124696246957922010-01-17T12:49:47.646-08:002010-01-17T12:49:47.646-08:00No matter where a person stands on abortion, havin...No matter where a person stands on abortion, having a "happy hour" with "Delish' no host nibbles" seems tasteless. I continue to be amazed at the depths to which pro-abortion groups sink.<br /><br />I think OWL brought this on themselves and deserve to be protested. They ran the ad in the newspaper. What did they expect? And, from what they were telling people who were calling their office, they apparently think some people are more equal than others. They want to celebrate abortion but don't want people expressing an opposing opinion.psychobobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16893106282711736231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post-24492259014363686812010-01-16T20:08:51.875-08:002010-01-16T20:08:51.875-08:00yes, the next step is government mandated executio...yes, the next step is government mandated executions of the elderly and handicapped. have you lost your mind? is Sarah Palin's fantasy death panel coming to get us?<br /><br />the right-wing is righteously in love with humanity for the first few months of cell-division, and once you're out of the womb, you're on your own.<br /><br />...because how on Earth are we supposed to maintain global empire if the poor aren't refueling the military with cannon fodder?HallViewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09007864007514028863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-882109295181079525.post-42332514570401596132010-01-15T17:35:18.879-08:002010-01-15T17:35:18.879-08:00Hey, Bill! Great show today. I myself would lose...Hey, Bill! Great show today. I myself would lose my lunch eating that night-- (but think it's a good idea)-- so give a peaceful protestor a high five when you go in, will ya?<br /><br />I hope you keep on this topic through the week- it's great to strategize and cooperate with so many great people on this important issue. I hope you're also at the pro-life rally in Portland, 2pm at Pioneer Square!Avidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06811419029042631201noreply@blogger.com